Okay, so I brought up a question today in class that's been bothering the hell out of me (no pun intended) and. I want to bring up some of the information I was able to find online. But for anyone who forgot or wasn't there my question was: what makes these saints that were killed for any number of reasons, so bad, while others were so good? So for the interest of time, I will stick to female saints but mind you, there are male saint who were put to death. I want to stick to females because the idea of witchcraft seems to be more prevalent among females. So I'm going to include the name, time period, area, a smidge of background knowledge, and the "crime" that was committed that was worthy of death.
Saint Cecillia - Patron saint of musicians
Rome, Italy - 2nd or 3rd century
This one is kinda gruesome so, consider yourself warned. But she was married to a pagan named Valerianus. She told him that there was an angel that kept watch over her virtue. Valerianus wanted to see this angel so she told him to get baptized. After he does this the same angel gives Cecilia and Valerianus both crowns (permitting them to get down, get down, tonight baby). After taking her purity Valerianus and his brother turn into jerks and turn Cecilia in for being Christian. So she gets locked in a bathroom, burned alive, and then her head is cut off. Three times.
Saint Agnes - Patron saint of
Rome, Italy - 292 to 304 A.D.
So this chick is one of my favorites. She was apparently really beautiful and was sought after by this dude in charge. She refused to marry him so he wanted to put her to death. But it was frowned upon to kill virgins at this time (don't ask me why) so he sent her to a brothel. But an angel kept an eye out for her and prevented this from happening. So instead they decided to burn her at the stake. She was stabbed in the throat when this didn't work.
Saint Dymphna - Patron saint of those suffering mental disorders
Was in Ireland but fled to Belgium - 7th century A.D.
Her mother died and her father went insane with grief. Her father wanted to marry her, but she ran away, so he followed her to Belgium. She refused him again so he cut her head off.
Saint Joan of Arc - Patron saint of France and being a bad ass
France - 1400s
She started seeing visions as a teenager and went to the King of France. She told him to give her command of an army and she would get the British out of Orleans. Long story short, she did. A few years later she got into a dispute with the same king and he burned her at the stake for witchcraft.
My question: why are these woman so different from Catherine of Siena and Hildegard? Catherine of Siena was around about the same time as Joan. It really confuses me because I don't know what the main difference is. Hildegard was never canonized either. Doesn't this strike anyone as odd? As Olivia pointed out, there was a great deal about sex and the female orgasm in Hildegard's writings. Why was this okay while a female refusing a man's advances was not?
One thing worth pointing out is the idea that women refusing men is a reason for being killed then sainted. Whereas witches are believed to have a great deal of sex and dance in the woods. It can't be this idea of feminine purity. There's a lot that doesn't exactly match up here.
What is the point? And what does this have to do with our class?
Does this not speak volumes about the conflicts of the time? So, to restate the question that Professor MB asked: why are some women so damn special? (I'm condensing a few things here, I know). My theory is that woman that did not give back to society in an appropriately feminine way in a combination with popularity with the people lead to bad things. Another point worth mentioning is the idea that family status was crucial.
Any thoughts guys?
Wow this was really shocking! My reactions to each of these women were:
ReplyDeleteCecelia: I felt like Valerianus just wanted to use her and he was like bored or disgusted by her or something afterwards. I think he was crazy for killing his wife. I mean it's his wife.
Agnes: I feel like the guy felt embarrassed or felt pathetic once she refused to marry him so he went mad crazy and killed her for revenge.
Dymphna: Again killing your own family member here! I think her father was crazy or was like a psychopath or something. I means it's his own flesh and blood.
Joan of Arc: I feel like the king felt threatened by her powers because she did something the king was unable to do.
In all these examples, I am getting a really sexist vibe with all of them. Men just couldn't see that women were just as important as they were. Or they were all crazy killers because I don't see how killing an innocent human was morally acceptable and christian-like. I know I'm speaking from my/this time periods point of view but I don't see how they were any different than Catherine or Hildegard. I can see how class status would have made a significant impact.
I love all of this information and the question that goes along with it. The only discernible difference I can come up with between the Saints are the people they were surrounded by. Hildegard and Catherine were surrounded by religious people, and they were considered a part of them. Hildegard even got the Pope's permission before sharing her visions and other beliefs. I think if these women were not so into religion, they would have been killed much like the Saints you wrote about. Then again, I don't know if the Saints you looked up were imbedded into the religious life at the time. If they were, then I have absolutely no idea why they were killed and Hildegard and Catherine were not.
ReplyDeleteTo my knowledge, Joan of Arc was captured and killed by the British after being accused of witchcraft/ heresy, aka "Wait a woman beat us in battle? We'll never live this down if we don't kill her." But actually the only charge that they could find her guilty of was that of cross-dressing. She intentionally wore pants while in prison to deter the male prison guards from trying to rape her, and in the end it was for that that she was burned.
ReplyDeleteI feel like these women refusing certain men and then getting killed and being canonized is merely a coincidence. If you look up the process of beatification and canonization yowl see that miracles are required. These women surely did others things at the time in which they were alive that clearly separated them from other women. Women who say no to guys dont just turn into saints one day.
ReplyDeleteThe main difference between Catherine and Joan is their political activities Joan was actively fighting in a war and while the King she fought for did not burn her, he did abandon her to the enemy. It was then that she was burned under the ruse of being a witch and later sainted.
ReplyDeleteI very much agree with Michael and Taylor in this situation. Without religion this women would have easily been done away with. Take Catherine for example, she was the only woman receives these visions and she also apparently had her "hidden" stigmata- what makes her so special? What makes her the chosen one?
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